Jake Brake Question

Topic 24526 | Page 1

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Grumpy Old Man's Comment
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My trainer is telling me that the jake brake should never be used without being on the brakes, that it will damage the engine. He wants me to use it while applying the brakes to slow 5 mph under my desired speed, then lightly step on the accelerator to shut the jake off, rinse and repeat.

I was using it on long slow hills to keep me at the speed limit, without having to constantly be braking.

Is he correct? I have never seen or heard of this before

PackRat's Comment
member avatar

The jakes can be used at any time and will not damage the motor. The purpose is to help decrease speed, saving wear on the service brakes. Careful on wet surfaces; don't use on ice, snow, or in populated areas (in towns). Also, no need to use them in truck stop parking lots while approaching the fuel island at 4-7 mph.

G-Town's Comment
member avatar

PackRat is 100% correct.

Grumpy,...your trainer...? Who trained him?

PJ's Comment
member avatar

OMG, that is a myth on steroids. Of course in bad weather/slick conditions turn it off. I leave mine on. High when loaded heavy and low when empty. Off bobtail. Mine is quiet, unlike my last truck and don’t even turn it off most of the time in posted zones. That one is a judgement call. It saves a ton on my service brakes.

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

G-Town's Comment
member avatar

I like PJs reply...

Seriously Grumpy, I run I-81 in PA south from exit 119 to I-78 many times per week; loaded, on average 78-79k gross. It’s mountainous, circuitous, and a steady descent going south. In dry conditions I almost never use the service brake until I exit onto 78.

Robert D. (Raptor)'s Comment
member avatar

I use the Jake all the time I'm going down hill. It does save on the service brakes. Pack Rat is right. This guy is teaching you wrong. Why would you need the Jake if you are using your service brakes. Now you can use them together but not necessarily. If the Jake doesn't get me down to the speed I want, then I will use the service brakes

Anyway Grumpy definately do not use in heavy rain or Ice or snow. Just like you I can't wait 'til training is over.

Rainy D.'s Comment
member avatar

My FLs had Hi and Lo. My international has 1, 2, 3. I only use 2.

I leave my jakes on at all times weather permitting. So when slowing at an intersection, taking a ramp, etc, im already slowing just by lifting my foot off the accelerator. It feels weird to me now if they aren't on.

In the event the jake isn't holding going downhill, i simply service brake then downshift and the jake holds. In my FL manual, i put it in 7th gear and rode the jakes down Monteagle without ever touching my service brake. In this autoshift International, I did the same on Cabbage. In bad weather without using the jake, I downshift 2 more gears.

The whole point of the jakes if to not burn up your brakes....going downhil and constantly riding them will smoke them or worse....cause a fire.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Grumpy Old Man's Comment
member avatar

I like PJs reply...

Seriously Grumpy, I run I-81 in PA south from exit 119 to I-78 many times per week; loaded, on average 78-79k gross. It’s mountainous, circuitous, and a steady descent going south. In dry conditions I almost never use the service brake until I exit onto 78.

This is pretty much where I have been the last 2 weeks I think. Yesterday was down I81 to Binghamton, then Hazleton PA, then back up 80 to 180 to 390

Last week started the same, but then we shot across PA to the Harrisburg area then up to Pittsburgh then Buffalo

Thanks everyone, I didn’t think I was nuts. It seemed crazy to me to keep hitting my brakes rather than let the jake do the work, let alone stepping on the accelerator afterwards.

But I’ll keep my mouth shut until after training, then do it the correct way.

Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar
I’ll keep my mouth shut until after training, then do it the correct way.

Seriously, that's brilliant.

Here's what I've learned from many years of teaching adults - a lot of people become very attached personally to their beliefs or their techniques no matter how wrong or illogical they may be. If they believe something should be done a certain way, or that something works a certain way, and you correct them, all they're going to hear you saying is, "You're stupid and I'm smarter than you." and the fight is on. They're going to perceive it as an attack, defend themselves to the death, and attack you in return. They will learn nothing, and helping them will accomplish nothing.

It's appalling to me how many people are too insecure to learn. They'd rather feel right than be right. They'd rather feel smart than be smart.

Learning is so deeply ingrained in me that I constantly try to learn more and do better with everything I do. If I'm making eggs in the morning I think about how I'm doing it and try to find a faster, easier way. When I'm getting dressed I wonder if there's a faster, easier way to get dressed. I'm just always hoping to learn more and improve myself.

I can assure you most people are not like that. Learning is the goal for me. With a lot of people their goal is to convince themselves and the people around them of how smart they are.

You can usually figure this out quickly with little fuss. Just notice how someone reacts if you suggest that something might work differently than they think, or that there might be a better way of doing something than what they're doing. If someone is teaching you how to do something, ask them why something is done a certain way and not a different way.

You'll figure out quickly if the person is open to new ideas or if they're really thinking through what they're doing. If they start getting snippy with you or defensive, you know you're dealing with someone who is personally attached to their beliefs and they're going to perceive what you're saying as an attack.

In your situation it's very likely that your trainer isn't going to respond well to the suggestion that he doesn't know how Jake Brakes work. He's young and he's your trainer so there's a good chance he's going to be rather insecure or overconfident in himself, neither of which lend themselves to listening or learning or having constructive conversations.

This unwillingness to learn has led me to developing a policy - I'll tell you what I know, you do with it what you like. I won't get offended if someone is too insecure or overconfident to listen and learn, unless it affects me directly, which it rarely does. I'll talk about any topic as long as a person has questions or shows an interest in learning or exploring it further. I enjoy taking deep dives into topics because it almost always yields new information, insights, or perspectives.

But if they would rather tell me I'm wrong and ignore what I'm saying, that's perfectly fine by me. I'll just shrug my shoulders and say, "Maybe you're right" and let them do what they like. It's no skin off my back if you screw things up for yourself. I'll sleep well knowing I did what I could to help.

So yeah, it's probably best to just go with the flow, let him think he knows what he's talking about, and then go about your business your way once you're on your own. As long as he's not doing anything dangerous I wouldn't worry about it.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Grumpy Old Man's Comment
member avatar

double-quotes-start.png

I’ll keep my mouth shut until after training, then do it the correct way.

double-quotes-end.png

Seriously, that's brilliant.

Here's what I've learned from many years of teaching adults - a lot of people become very attached personally to their beliefs or their techniques no matter how wrong or illogical they may be. If they believe something should be done a certain way, or that something works a certain way, and you correct them, all they're going to hear you saying is, "You're stupid and I'm smarter than you." and the fight is on. They're going to perceive it as an attack, defend themselves to the death, and attack you in return. They will learn nothing, and helping them will accomplish nothing.

It's appalling to me how many people are too insecure to learn. They'd rather feel right than be right. They'd rather feel smart than be smart.

Learning is so deeply ingrained in me that I constantly try to learn more and do better with everything I do. If I'm making eggs in the morning I think about how I'm doing it and try to find a faster, easier way. When I'm getting dressed I wonder if there's a faster, easier way to get dressed. I'm just always hoping to learn more and improve myself.

I can assure you most people are not like that. Learning is the goal for me. With a lot of people their goal is to convince themselves and the people around them of how smart they are.

You can usually figure this out quickly with little fuss. Just notice how someone reacts if you suggest that something might work differently than they think, or that there might be a better way of doing something than what they're doing. If someone is teaching you how to do something, ask them why something is done a certain way and not a different way.

You'll figure out quickly if the person is open to new ideas or if they're really thinking through what they're doing. If they start getting snippy with you or defensive, you know you're dealing with someone who is personally attached to their beliefs and they're going to perceive what you're saying as an attack.

In your situation it's very likely that your trainer isn't going to respond well to the suggestion that he doesn't know how Jake Brakes work. He's young and he's your trainer so there's a good chance he's going to be rather insecure or overconfident in himself, neither of which lend themselves to listening or learning or having constructive conversations.

This unwillingness to learn has led me to developing a policy - I'll tell you what I know, you do with it what you like. I won't get offended if someone is too insecure or overconfident to listen and learn, unless it affects me directly, which it rarely does. I'll talk about any topic as long as a person has questions or shows an interest in learning or exploring it further. I enjoy taking deep dives into topics because it almost always yields new information, insights, or perspectives.

But if they would rather tell me I'm wrong and ignore what I'm saying, that's perfectly fine by me. I'll just shrug my shoulders and say, "Maybe you're right" and let them do what they like. It's no skin off my back if you screw things up for yourself. I'll sleep well knowing I did what I could to help.

So yeah, it's probably best to just go with the flow, let him think he knows what he's talking about, and then go about your business your way once you're on your own. As long as he's not doing anything dangerous I wouldn't worry about it.

Yep. Describes him to a T. He has to be right.

I’m smart enough to pick my battles.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

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