HOS Rules; New 8/2 Or 7/3 Split

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Chief Brody's Comment
member avatar

If you've read my diary, you know that I found out, during a random level one inspection in Kentucky, that my ELD showed a violation of the 14-hour daily limit as a result of using an 8/2 split as a "clock extender." I wanted to share what I found out after talking to logs and also entering my actual time into the FMCSA online HOS tool. I am sharing this ONLY to explain how my ELD and the FMCSA online tools calculates the split for 14-hour limit purposes. You may disagree that the way the FMCSA online tool calculates the split does not conform to the actual rule. In fact, I think some of their guidance on the website does not correspond to their own online tool, but that's the way it is. The FMCSA online HOS tool allows you to enter your actual time and will list any violations of the HOS rules in a box below your entries. I have included the link below.

With regard to the 8/2 or 7/3 split, you can use the 2 or 3 hour off-duty time to "extend" your 14-hour clock, but the 2 or 3 hour off-duty time MUST be paired with a corresponding 8 or 7 hour sleeper berth. BUT that 8 or 7 hour sleeper berth does NOT need to be part of an actual 8/2 or 7/3 split.

For example, if you come off a 10-hour break, drive 3-hours, 1-hour on-duty, then 2 hours off-duty, that 2 hours off-duty will pause/extend your 14-hour clock. My ELD has a toggle button that says "will pair with SB (sleeper berth)." If I check that toggle button, I can drive beyond my original 14-hour clock. If you drive beyond your original 14-hour clock, you will not a have 14-hour clock violation, if there is a 8 hour sleeper birth paired with that 2-hour off-duty period. At the end of the day, you can take another 10-hour break, which will reset your clock for the next day. BUT, you need at least 8 hours of your 10-hour break to be in the sleeper. If you only log those 10 hours as off-duty (without at least 8 hours sleeper berth), the ELD will trigger a 14-hour violation AND it won't give you any notification of such violation, because it is retroactive.

If you use a regular 8/2 or 7/3 split, the 2-hour off-duty would still pause your 14-hour clock AND you would only get back the time that the 8/2 or 7/3 split rule provides. After you have done an 8/2 or 7/3 split, you can follow that up with a 10-hour break which will reset your full clock.

Hope this helps.

FMCSA Online HOS Module

Sleeper Berth:

The portion of the tractor behind the seats which acts as the "living space" for the driver. It generally contains a bed (or bunk beds), cabinets, lights, temperature control knobs, and 12 volt plugs for power.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Sid V.'s Comment
member avatar

Thanks for the post Brody, i haven't really put much thought into the new split break rules. I think your saying that if you take a 2 hour break first and you want to extend your 14 hour clock, your next break has to include an 8 hour break in sleeper even if it is a 10 hour break.

However, i'm not sure that's a violation per se. You can always switch time from off duty to sleeper vice versa. So, even if you accidently take a 10 hour break in off duty, you'd just split the time up. Sometimes i take a 9 hour break off duty, and i'm ready to go, so i change that time to 8 hours of sleeper to get time back and go.

Personally, i don't like the fact that you can extend your driving time because i think it's making people drive even more than they should, but that's just my opinion.

Donna M.'s Comment
member avatar

How is it extending your driving hours? You have 11 hours per 14 to drive, still only have 11 hours.

Chief Brody's Comment
member avatar

At least 2 hours off duty time pauses your your 14-hour clock so it effectively extends your normal 14-hour limit to drive your 11 hours. So, 2 hours off duty gives you 16 hours to drive 11 hours.

Greg H.'s Comment
member avatar

Well, I was going to eventually start a thread regarding the 8/2 or 7/3 split. I see there is one started so, I'll go with this. Maybe we'll all better understand it, or in my case, understand it at all, after this thread. It just confused me I think.

Someone who actually gets it, please do explain it.

I will comment on one thing. You mentioned that you have to take an 10 hour break at the end of the day, but 8 had to be in the sleeper and I believe that's wrong. I don't believe it matters weather or not if the 10 is all off duty or sleeper or a combination of both, amounting to 10 hours.

My most recent employer, the owner, use to be an DOT Judge and we had a short conversation in regards to the split. He understood this crap. I should have sat down with him and got him to explain it to me.

Personally, I don't use the split or try. I just stick to the 10. I'm not much of a split person.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Chief Brody's Comment
member avatar

Greg H says:

I don't believe it matters weather or not if the 10 is all off duty or sleeper or a combination of both, amounting to 10 hours.

This may be a correct reading of the rule but that is not how Prime's ELD and the FMCSA online tool calculates the split. When I got pulled in for the random inspection, the Kentucky inspectors thought I had three violations, but my logs department said I only had one. That violation was because I didn't have at least 8 hours of my 21 hours off-duty in the sleeper.

The purpose of my post was to explain how my ELD and the FMCSA calculates the split for the purposes of the 14-hour clock.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Donna M.'s Comment
member avatar

I don't believe it matters weather or not if the 10 is all off duty or sleeper or a combination of both, amounting to 10 hours. --- If you're taking a 10 hour break u are correct! But if taking a 3/7 or 2/8 the 7/8 must be in the sleeper.

Davy A.'s Comment
member avatar

I don't believe it matters weather or not if the 10 is all off duty or sleeper or a combination of both, amounting to 10 hours. --- If you're taking a 10 hour break u are correct! But if taking a 3/7 or 2/8 the 7/8 must be in the sleeper.

Our zonar won't count it unless it's sleeper berth and the toggle is on for split berth. I'll use it periodically. For instance, had a live load at 3 pm. Arrived early and got a door at 2:00 pm. I hit sleeper berth and split button. Spent 2 hours there. It paused my 14 hour where it was at 2pm (had like 6 hours left on it. When I shut down down that evening, I did 8 hours sleeper berth and got a fresh 11 and 14.

Sleeper Berth:

The portion of the tractor behind the seats which acts as the "living space" for the driver. It generally contains a bed (or bunk beds), cabinets, lights, temperature control knobs, and 12 volt plugs for power.

Stevo Reno's Comment
member avatar

I have found with our Qualcom system, 2 hrs, and exactly 31 minutes as off duty, does pause the 14 clock.

BUT that 31st minute, starts it rolling again. I don't really do splits either, except if I really need a quick 1-2 hours nap, I will go Off Duty, take a quickee snooze then jump right back driving out my 11.

Me and my co-driver have disagreements on how he wastes lots time. Me I will do my 30 DOT ,while fueling, spend maybe 15 mins or less fuelin move off pump, go in grab fast coffee n a snack or 2, and soon as my 31st minute clicks I am rolling! Will clock fueling later. Can't drive 650-700+ miles, wasting valuable time. And I drive Nights, which is harder to find a legal parking spot most of the time, I won't park on shoulders, off ramps etc.

Now he will log out for fueling status, takes wee bit longer than I do. Then once done, grabs coffee etc, will park, THEN log out on his 30 DOT, and sometimes that becomes bit longer than a 30 hahahaha

But I ain't complainin' he DOES drive out his clock a lot even if lil less miles. But he has done enough 600+ days. And he prefers to drive the daytime, which is cool since I am getting fed up dealing with the city daytime MORONS on the roads hahaha.......Nights are sooooo much better ! lol

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Old School's Comment
member avatar
Spent 2 hours there. It paused my 14 hour where it was at 2pm (had like 6 hours left on it. When I shut down down that evening, I did 8 hours sleeper berth and got a fresh 11 and 14.

I'm not sure what you mean by "fresh," but for those who are just learning this stuff, a split will not restore a full clock on your 11 or 14. Only a straight ten hour break will do that. A split break will partially restore your 11 and 14 according to your prior drive and on duty times used.

You have to meet these requirements:

  • Make sure you meet the two minimum requirements. (2 hours and 7 hours)
  • Make sure your combined breaks equal 10 hours.
  • Make sure the longer break is logged in the sleeper.

That is the basics. If we need to discuss this deeper, I'd be glad to throw in some more information.

Sleeper Berth:

The portion of the tractor behind the seats which acts as the "living space" for the driver. It generally contains a bed (or bunk beds), cabinets, lights, temperature control knobs, and 12 volt plugs for power.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
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