Bill Gates (Microsoft) And Jeff Bezos (Amazon) Crushed By Trucking!

Rob T, I'm not sure which generation you are from. To me, matters little. I have seen a general slide into the mindset you described across the age lines in the past 3.5 years. This is not intended as a political comment, but I believe the division of workers into two classes has a lot to do with the phenomenon. When certain people are told they aren't necessary, and allowed to just hang out for months at a time, the malaise is "seeded and feeded". Folks my age (over 60) are as badly infected as folks my sons age (late 20's).

It is crushing our workforce, and it will be difficult to attract people to do jobs that require / demand t reward (sometimes) personal sacrifice (as, imo, this profession does).

Sorry, kind of off track for this discussion, but I needed to share that observation.

Just a correction i noticed if im running a fresh load its usually a full trailer but each stop gets half a trailer or so.

Rob T, I'm not sure which generation you are from. To me, matters little.

I will turn 34 at end of this year.

It is crushing our workforce, and it will be difficult to attract people to do jobs that require / demand t reward (sometimes) personal sacrifice (as, imo, this profession does).

part of the problem also falls on parents and the public school system that drilled it in our heads that if you don't go to a 4 year college you'll end up working minimum wage jobs all your life. The trades in general are often looked down on but play such a crucial role in society as we know it. When covid shut the world down it sure wasnt office people that were deemed essential. There's many people I graduated with that did the college route and are making less than half what I do, going to work everyday hating their career path. Sure there's days I do as well but those are usually when I get forced into a layover due to my office making appt times for backhauls/LTL that don't make sense with our store deliveries, or more often the incompetence of the shipper/receiver to not make appts they're not able to keep up with or have product ready for. Winter weather also makes me question why I'm doing this sometimes 😁.

Hazardous conditions is another factor in the whole pay scheme. If a driver gets paid hourly will they shut down in less Hazardous conditions because they'll still get paid? There's also not necessarily any rush for them to get to their destination because the slower speed will actually result in them earning more money. The driver paid by the mile may end up going out in the dangerous conditions because their employer pays very little for weather stopping them. It's easy to say we wouldn't fall into that category but there's drivers that go out knowing their bills are piling up, kids needs clothes or Christmas presents and you really need this load to be on next weeks paycheck to pay rent.

Where I'm at we have several drivers that blow my doors off in icy conditions. In their mind they're losing money to slow down in those conditions. So I guess the argument could be made paying a driver by the mile pushes a some drivers to drive faster in hazardous conditions but is also an incentive in a way for a driver paid hourly (by the trip taking longer).

Never did the general contractor say after the job was done he wasn’t making enough money on the project to cover his costs, so instead of the $40 per square agreed on up front, I’m only going to pay $35 per square. So piecework in trucking is a fickle friend, based on what I’m reading in this thread.

That comparison makes no sense to me. I've never even heard of a trucking company changing what they are willing to pay after a driver has delivered. The driver knows how much he's getting paid per mile, and he knows how many miles the company is paying for before he ever gets started.

I've said for years in here that each load you run is basically a contractual agreement between driver and company. The driver can agree to the contract by accepting the load, or they can simply decide they aren't willing to do it. Or, maybe he can negotiate a better deal.

If the driver doesn't care for those options he can find a job that suits him better. I'm extremely fortunate in my situation. Every load I run is the load I chose. Every time I get dispatched I have about ten loads I can choose from. I know the miles allotted for the loads, and I choose wisely. I realize very few drivers have those options. You have to build your own value in this business. I think it's one of the most misunderstood factors in trucking.

What are the reasons most companies avoid the “hub” mile model of driver compensation?

Hub miles becomes an easy thing to manipulate. It's like hourly compensation. People find ways to stretch their pay. Instead of taking the most efficient route, they may swing by and visit their cousins expecting compensation for their extra miles.

Do you guys remember the basic premise of this whole conversation? It was that trucking has evolved into an efficient well oiled machine. Even the software gurus with their wealth and talents can't seem to improve on it. We are running the way we run because it works.

As far as I can see these alternative pay methods have been developed as marketing schemes. They know there's a certain amount of people who gravitate that way, and the scheme works to attract those drivers. If the methods actually worked better, we'd see them more widely used.

It's a very competitive business. Fierce competition gives birth to efficiency. Trucking is foundational to our American economy. It's only natural that the most effective methods prevail. Brett's comments about trucking companies and drivers being "frenemies" were spot on accurate.

OS, just to put my comment into context, my example was based on an earlier comment from Brett about how a company can reduce the number of miles a driver is paid in order to make the company numbers work out. That practice is new to me and I was surprised to learn of it. Then “piecework” was added in to the mix.

Piecework in construction is never, in my experience, discounted when the job is done and the subcontractor is due his pay. If I understood Brett’s comment correctly, then the miles/piecework in trucking can be altered in the companies favor. So, for a company to pay a driver less than what miles he drives (beyond the discrepancy from the zip to zip system),really was a revelation to me personally based on my experience from construction.

I’m not suggesting that the “well oiled machine” be scrapped, I’m just surprised to know such a practice exists.

In reading all the responses and different ways drivers are paid what stands out to me is the more you make for the company based on their business model the more that driver is going to be compensated. The driver that does the little things, a good DM will see beyond all the matrices a driver is measured by and know that the driver is someone they want to keep so they make the drivers life richer. Whether the reward for taking a loss on one trip as a driver so you can get a great trip as a follow up evens things out in the end.

I work part time driving a straight truck delivering propane cylinders to various stores and I am compensated on via an hourly wage. When I first started I talked to my DM and asked her what are the matrices they use to judge a drivers performance and she worked them out for me. Once I knew what was expected it was easier to know in my own way if I was sailing or failing.

The simplest measurement for us is cylinders per hour worked. Whether I have a short driving route within the city and a few big stops and I empty the truck it ups my numbers, if I have a 400 mile day where I only restock 250 cylinders and the route takes all of my 14( we unload and restock the truck after getting back to the yard). That makes my numbers go down.

In the end it all evens out because the company wants to make money and the employees want the company to make money. I have been their just over a year and have seen 2 unasked for pay increases.

I meet my DM's numbers and try to be accommodating and I have been rewarded. This is advice I have learned from many of the moderators and experienced drivers on this site and it has paid off.

Thank you.

I have seen a general slide into the mindset you described across the age lines in the past 3.5 years

I totally agree. Every time I hear, "The kids these days..." I remind people that standards for almost everything have dropped in our society at all age levels. It's not just "the kids these days" who are getting fat, lazy, entitled, and needy.

Look at television shows from the 70's and 80's. People were in better shape, tougher, more confident, more proud, and more of just about everything you need to be in order to build a great life for yourself.

It's more important now than ever for us to examine our own standards. Look hard in the mirror and make sure you're not allowing the downhill trajectory of our societal standards to drag you down with it.

If I understood Brett’s comment correctly, then the miles/piecework in trucking can be altered in the companies favor. So, for a company to pay a driver less than what miles he drives (beyond the discrepancy from the zip to zip system),really was a revelation to me personally based on my experience from construction.

BK, I'm not sure if you saw this or not, but I wanted to repost what I said earlier about this just in case:

That's true, but don't forget:

• The company doesn't get paid for those miles they've shorted on the run
• The company knows it's a practice their drivers do not appreciate
• The company still has to pay for the fuel for all miles driven

So, the company certainly doesn't get off scot-free. Money is coming out of their pocket, too.

I don't want you to get the impression your company is stealing from you. These negotiations over paid mileage reduce your company's revenues as well.

OS, just to put my comment into context, my example was based on an earlier comment from Brett about how a company can reduce the number of miles a driver is paid in order to make the company numbers work out.

Thanks for the clarification BK, but what didn't make sense to me was when you said the contractor changed the price after the sub completed the work. That isn't what takes place in trucking.

If the trucking company agrees with the customer to charge for X amount of miles, then that's what the driver is shown on his dispatch. They don't do a "bait and switch." The driver always sees how many miles he's getting paid for.

In reading all the responses and different ways drivers are paid what stands out to me is the more you make for the company based on their business model the more that driver is going to be compensated.

really that's what it comes down to. As a driver we aren't going to change their business model regardless of our personal feelings. If it's a deal breaker there's plenty of other jobs out there. As Brett pointed out early in the discussion there's alot to consider when changing jobs. Often times the grass is NOT greener. Many drivers hyper focus on the negatives and make drastic decisions even though there's many more positives. I think my current job is great overall, we're paid well, great benefits, and flexibility among other things. BUT we have plenty of guys that act like it's the end of the world to receive a text message on their phone in their day off letting us know there are extra loads available if we want to work. Truth be told we often forget about what's good and get thrown off when something bad happens. We see this type of behavior reading reviews for trucking companies or many businesses like restaurants.

I have been their just over a year and have seen 2 unasked for pay increases.

Way to go, Nuts. You're getting it done and being rewarded for your willingness to get it done.

Absolutely fantastic discussion. Really enjoying reading all the replies.

Bruce asked:

One question I have that I’m sure the experienced guys here have insight into, is why do only a few companies pay hub miles? What are the reasons most companies avoid the “hub” mile model of driver compensation?

A few reasons:

1) Some drivers try to game the system and take longer routes. Either the company eventually does away with the system or they start micromanaging to avoid this happening. I’ve seen both of these happen. The first company switched to practical miles instead (where you get paid the full number of miles from one stop to another based on routing software instead of hub miles). The other company that my buddy drives for made a rule that if they drive out of route more than a certain percentage they have to pay for 50% of the fuel.

2) The mileage rate doesn’t look as good in job ads. The fact is, companies have to make a profit and they all have operating costs. If a company’s operating costs are $2.00 per mile on average before paying the driver and they’re taking freight that pays $3.00 a mile on average and they want to make $.20 a mile in profit, they can only pay me $.80 per mile total including all benefits and ancillary pay and bonuses. If they choose to pay hub miles they’re going to have to offer a lower mileage rate to offset the additional miles they’re going to be paying out. Obviously that’s just a rough example but you get the idea.

3) HHG miles are more simple for the company, plain and simple. You’re not really getting paid by the mile, even though that’s what it’s marketed to you as. You’re getting paid a preset amount for a particular load so you’re really getting paid by the load. Instead of having an incentive to run more actual miles, it incentivizes you to run more loads. It also cuts the company a break if detours and avoiding tolls and so forth causes you to have to run more actual miles. Like Brett or someone said earlier in this discussion, the company and I are aligned on our goal to run as many loads as possible but we do have competition between each other when it comes to splitting the pie. I want as much of the profits as possible and so does the company. The company had already accepted a set amount of money for the load. Why would they want to pay me out more money to avoid a toll or take a detour? They don’t want to so it’s better for them to pay me a preset amount.

In the end it’s mainly just marketing like someone else said. I do feel overall hub mileage and stop pay does a better job of paying me for exactly what I’m doing with no gray areas and it keeps the company a little more accountable but at the end of the year I’d probably make about the same either way.

Damn I really should’ve refreshed the page before responding lol. I’m late to the discussion 😂

I'm seeing indications the brokerage houses are bidding even lower prices for freight right now. In this environment that can only mean they are struggling. When it starts getting hard for them to meet obligations they tend to go for more volume with aggressive bidding.

Also interesting is the number of carriers who shut down over the past year. Freightwaves gives an estimate of 35,000 trucking companies having failed by the end of the third quarter. This business is really tough.