My Student Driver Landed Himself In Hot Water. Almost Fired!

That's great! NewGuy was in a buddy road-trip mode until you woke him up to the fact this is a business trip.

That's exactly how I felt. I think he forgot that he's in training and thought it was just a trip with a buddy now that he has his license.

Bud, my good friend, our styles are completely different it seems. Mentally, he was on a buddy/buddy level with me which is probably why he didn't think being late would hurt him. After all, surely his good friend wouldn't get mad at him and would let it slide, right?

Reminding him who I am (boss not buddy) set him straight and put him back in his place. It reminded him of my role and that this isn't a road trip.

And from my experience, the proof is in the pudding. He is better than ever, takes this much more seriously, and has been a pleasure to work with ever since. He got too comfortable with his position and with me. I admit that I befriended him more than I should have. But this brought the atmosphere back to a trainer/student environment.

Just my opinion.

You laid back Californians.

That makes complete sense. I guess over the years I've developed a habit of keeping nearly everyone at arm's length, so no one ever mistook me for being their buddy that will let something slide because of friendship. Letting them in by telling them anything personal was reserved for only a few, and only after I knew they were trustworthy and understood business. I am more goal oriented than relationship oriented, so I guess it never occurred to me that a student would think they're on a road trip. We can have fun while we're doing our job, but we will not be having any fun at all if we're not doing our job.

I'm probably too far to the goal side for my own good in some circumstances. I might've told the guy no when he wanted to go home for his kid's first birthday 2.5 weeks after having 11 days off. I mean, that kid isn't going to remember that! Let's roll! We've got freight to deliver, and you've got 20,000 miles to go before you sleep!! You can go home as much as you like when you have your own truck, but right now we're working on getting this done!

I know, hard core.

Agree with everything Brett had to say. I don't think a disagree with telling the man that you are the boss. Daniel has sole responsibility of the truck, his safety and the safety of his student. Being in the Marines or any military organization you have a chain of command. So as a E-4 if a E-5 came up and told me to do something what was i going to say, you're not the boss of me the only the Sergeant Major? No he was held accountable for every Marine under him which meant they were under his charge which means yes you better listen him if you want to have a decent tour. In this situation right now yes Daniel is his Mentor, his Trainer, his Boss. Daniel gave him multiple directives on what to do and when he was going to be there and he decided not to listen.

And from my experience, the proof is in the pudding. He is better than ever, takes this much more seriously, and has been a pleasure to work with ever since. He got too comfortable with his position and with me. I admit that I befriended him more than I should have. But this brought the atmosphere back to a trainer/student environment.

The bottom line: The leadership style you used worked....the student driver is growing as a person and driver.

If the adults you are training don't have thick skin by now they are way behind the power curve. As this thread explains, there are many different leadership styles, but it is important to note that each one will get the job done. As you progress through your career you will be exposed to many different styles, and the goal is to blend all the aspects of each style that fits your personality into your own leadership style. You are growing as a person too and mentoring/leading adutls is not easy. It takes time and experience. I think you are off to a great start.

Being in the Marines or any military organization you have a chain of command.

See, military personnel and serious athletes have a completely different mindset than most people. They understand that when you're at the bottom of the totem pole you are more of a danger and a burden than anything else so it's your place to listen, learn, and do as you're told until you've gained enough experience, knowledge, and skill to earn a higher ranking and the authority and respect that goes with it.

People who have never been in a highly challenging environment where it takes years to get good at something don't understand this at all. They see themselves as equals on day one. They expect to be given the same treatment as a student that the proven veterans get.

I don't watch the show "Dancing With The Stars" but on ESPN they were talking about how athletes tend to win on that show a lot.

Kristi Yamaguchi, the 1992 Olympic Skating Champion, said:

"I think we athletes know how to perform and we're used to being coached. We're also fine with being told what to do and taking instruction and criticism."

And of course I don't even need to explain the specifics about military personnel and their character. They are simply second to none. Nobody understands the importance of earning respect, paying your dues, and working your way up from the bottom like they do.

Company-Sponsored Training Programs, which are more of a tryout to make the team than they are an ordinary school, send about 1/3 of the class home the first week. Now naturally some people fail their physical or lied on their application. But others just get handed a bus ticket seemingly out of the blue. You know why? Because when you show up on day one with absolutely no experience, no knowledge, and no skills whatsoever and immediately start running your mouth about the respect you had better be given they know you have no clue how difficult and dangerous this job is. They know you're not going to listen, you're not going to learn the way you should, and you don't have the right priorities. They're sending you home before you kill somebody, plain and simple.

If you've never worked your way up from the bottom in something difficult and dangerous then you probably don't understand why rookies shouldn't demand the same respect as veterans. If you've never accomplished anything that deserves a tremendous amount of respect then you probably feel everyone should be treated equally. I mean, you only know what you've experienced, right?

James Harrison, the Steelers Linebacker, recently took away the "participation trophies" his kids got for just showing up. He said:

"I came home to find out that my boys received two trophies for nothing, participation trophies! While I am very proud of my boys for everything they do and will encourage them till the day I die, these trophies will be given back until they EARN a real trophy. I'm sorry.

I'm not sorry for believing that everything in life should be earned and I'm not about to raise two boys to be men by making them believe that they are entitled to something just because they tried their best...cause sometimes your best is not enough, and that should drive you to want to do better...not cry and whine until somebody gives you something to shut u up and keep you happy."

- James Harrison - Pittsburgh Steelers

Amen to that.

Being in the Marines or any military organization you have a chain of command.

See, military personnel and serious athletes have a completely different mindset than most people. They understand that when you're at the bottom of the totem pole you are more of a danger and a burden than anything else so it's your place to listen, learn, and do as you're told until you've gained enough experience, knowledge, and skill to earn a higher ranking and the authority and respect that goes with it.

People who have never been in a highly challenging environment where it takes years to get good at something don't understand this at all. They see themselves as equals on day one. They expect to be given the same treatment as a student that the proven veterans get.

I don't watch the show "Dancing With The Stars" but on ESPN they were talking about how athletes tend to win on that show a lot.

Kristi Yamaguchi, the 1992 Olympic Skating Champion, said:

"I think we athletes know how to perform and we're used to being coached. We're also fine with being told what to do and taking instruction and criticism."

And of course I don't even need to explain the specifics about military personnel and their character. They are simply second to none. Nobody understands the importance of earning respect, paying your dues, and working your way up from the bottom like they do.

Company-Sponsored Training Programs, which are more of a tryout to make the team than they are an ordinary school, send about 1/3 of the class home the first week. Now naturally some people fail their physical or lied on their application. But others just get handed a bus ticket seemingly out of the blue. You know why? Because when you show up on day one with absolutely no experience, no knowledge, and no skills whatsoever and immediately start running your mouth about the respect you had better be given they know you have no clue how difficult and dangerous this job is. They know you're not going to listen, you're not going to learn the way you should, and you don't have the right priorities. They're sending you home before you kill somebody, plain and simple.

If you've never worked your way up from the bottom in something difficult and dangerous then you probably don't understand why rookies shouldn't demand the same respect as veterans. If you've never accomplished anything that deserves a tremendous amount of respect then you probably feel everyone should be treated equally. I mean, you only know what you've experienced, right?

James Harrison, the Steelers Linebacker, recently took away the "participation trophies" his kids got for just showing up. He said:

"I came home to find out that my boys received two trophies for nothing, participation trophies! While I am very proud of my boys for everything they do and will encourage them till the day I die, these trophies will be given back until they EARN a real trophy. I'm not sorry for believing that everything in life should be earned and I'm not about to raise two boys to be men by making them believe that they are entitled to something just because they tried their best...cause sometimes your best is not enough, and that should drive you to want to do better...not cry and whine until somebody gives you something to shut u up and keep you happy."

- James Harrison - Pittsburgh Steelers

Amen to that.

Good stuff. Go STEELERS!!!

Daniel gave him multiple directives on what to do and when he was going to be there and he decided not to listen.

This here, is the core of the issue.

IMO, the DM or FM should have said after Daniel informed of situation, "Daniel proceed to pick up without him, we have a customer relying on us. We'll rally back to get him another time." ... Let the "listen impaired" stay at home for a week or two or three, no pay. Each time he called asking when he's getting back to work, the DM or FM should tell him "Sorry, we're doing employee attitude laundry. We'll contact you when finished."

Meanwhile, have recruiting find another driver. Obviously, if this guy cannot listen to be at a pick up point in his own area when directed multiple times, ahead of time, how can you expect him to listen to when a delivery is due to be picked up or dropped? The dude's action sent a ripple of disruption through assignments. Over laundry after already being home for a few days? For real? SMH

Sorry, I may sound harsh, but this is something very simple and reflects the character of ones work ethic. He chose not to listen to a very simple request. Be at this location at this time TO WORK.

There are guy's & gal's out there not working that would love to listen & follow that basic request.

I've never once looked at or addressed my fleet manager as my boss. I'm working with him not necessarily for him. Last I checked, he wouldn't have a job at Prime if us just another students didn't go through the 3 month ordeal of getting our cdl and own truck.

Joshua, a word of advice here... One of the things I love about trucking is that I've never really known who my boss is. I've said that many times, and there really is a liberty in this job from being pressured by a "boss" that is unequaled in most other endeavors. But... In reality you had better have a healthy respect for your FM , just as though he were your boss. He has all kinds of power to make your life miserable, or really wonderful, if he chooses. Of course as long as you are doing a bang up job and keeping things moving in a timely manner with a great attitude, which is of course your responsibility, not his, then you should have no problems. If you are so short sighted at thinking he has a job there because of you, I am honestly concerned that you have a tough road ahead of you in this industry.

Daniel, sorry I haven't been taking your calls, I assume you wanted to talk about this. I haven't replaced my blue-tooth device yet, so I haven't had the liberty to talk on the road right now. I'm going home next week and I'll probably take care of that issue then.

Most of you realize that I was "the boss" for thirty years prior to becoming a truck driver for a second career. I don't ever recall having to assert to my employees my position over them. I think Daniel was at fault a little, and he as much admitted it when he said they had gotten more on a buddy riding with a buddy level, but he clearly did everything right in communicating with his trainee about when they needed to meet up at the chosen destination. It was completely irresponsible what the trainee did, and easily avoidable. Daniel needed to clarify how this relationship worked, and he maybe didn't choose the best way to do it, but it worked, and as far as I'm concerned that is the main thing - the result.

I think I know Daniel fairly well, and I can tell you that he would be the first person to admit that his mouth gets him in trouble some times. He tends to blurt out the first thing that comes to his mind, especially if he's upset. I think it cost him a few bloody noses when he was a kid! He knows his faults, but he will stand up for what he thinks is right even if it costs him.

Being a trainer, is a difficult position to be in. I've been asked many times to do this, and even though my wife has consistently told me that she thinks I would be good at it, I just don't have the motivation to do it. I will train some new guys occasionally at the plant on load securement procedures, but I just don't want to have someone with me on the truck all the time. For me this is a second career, it is more of something that I enjoy doing than something I have to do to feed my family. I spent so many years training people to do their jobs, that I just want to sit back and enjoy doing mine right now. I try to pay it forward by being involved here in this forum, and hopefully I help some folks get off to a good start just by being here.

I went through my experiences with a crazy trainer, and I know how trying it can be to be the "New Guy" also. It is very difficult for those who are new to this business to realize how important time management is. This was probably a good lesson for both Daniel and the New Guy. I think they will both have benefited from it.

Another quote I forgot to mention was by Nick Saban, the coach of the Alabama Crimson Tide football team. He said:

Mediocre people don’t like high achievers and high achievers don’t like mediocre people. – Nick Saban

Again we have that dichotomy where high achievers understand there's a process you have to go through if you expect to accomplish difficult, dangerous challenges. People who have achieved very little don't understand this. They haven't been through it. They show up on day one strutting around the place like they're in the Hall of Fame expecting a bunch of perks for being "one of the guys". In trucking these guys have heard that truckers are in demand so they get their CDL and immediately it makes them feel important. They feel as if they've accomplished something big and now they're on equal footing with everyone that has a CDL.

But the veterans know what it takes to survive out there for many years. They've lived it. If you're the type that thinks passing a few exams somehow puts you on equal footing with the guys that have done this career successfully over a period of time then you don't know what you've gotten yourself into. But you're about to find out!

Man, this is an interesting read! I tend to diagnose everything I do and how I do it. This has been on my mind for many days now and been eating me up inside. That's why I made this thread, I wanted different perspectives and constructive criticism.

Bud, I don't think either one of us are wrong. It's all an opinion because we truly can't know exactly what my student was thinking and the mindset he was having.

OS, dont worry about the phone calls! My student is on my truck again so I can't vent about him anymore. Haha!

There's one fact, you teach the students but they also teach you about yourself. Each one is a learning experience, you'll always have your regrets with every one of them.

I just read the topic and all the responses. Brett, once again you knocked it out of the park. The sense of entitlement that so many people have is too much to bear. Unfortunately it is being purposely taught to kids more often than not. Kudos to those like James Harrison who have the fortitude to teach his children to earn what they want to get. No worries Daniel B., you're still the man and you succeeded completely - trainee is better than ever.