HOS Scenario

Topic 29320 | Page 1

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Uncle Rake's Comment
member avatar

Let’s say a driver named Butch begins with a fresh clock by driving to a Walmart DC. His appointment time is at 0400. Butch starts at 2300 and arrives at the DC an hour early at 0300. Butch will eventually get through the gate and get to a door and get checked in with his paperwork by 0340. Butch will wait to be unloaded until 0830.

Butch went off duty at 0300 as soon as he entered the gate. Then he used personal conveyance to get to the door so that his clock has not been running since he arrived. Since he has been off duty for 5 1/2 hours, Butch decides to use PC to move to a truck stop about 20 miles away. There he waits an additional four hours to end his 10 hour break and get his time back to continue moving to the next stop.

What is your assessment of Butch’s actions? Could he have handled things in a better way? What options would the split sleeper birth provide in his situation?

PackRat's Comment
member avatar

How is he using PC when loaded any time moving at the delivery? Guessing this is a multiple stop load, how is PC being used at all?

Mikey B.'s Comment
member avatar

I would say that Butch had better hope he doesn't get a Dot inspection within the next 8 days. If he does he will have to explain to the inspector why he used PC to move his loaded trailer to the door on customer property. Butch will then have to explain to his company why he now has an HOS violation ticket on his record.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Mikey B.'s Comment
member avatar

I would say that Butch had better hope he doesn't get a Dot inspection within the next 8 days. If he does he will have to explain to the inspector why he used PC to move his loaded trailer to the door on customer property. Butch will then have to explain to his company why he now has an HOS violation ticket on his record.

Also moving to the truckstop while under a load is a violation. Not to mention going immediately to off duty when arriving then checking in with the receiver while in off duty status. Checking in is to be on duty as Butch is performing duties required for the job so another HOS violation.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Bobcat_Bob's Comment
member avatar
I would say that Butch had better hope he doesn't get a Dot inspection within the next 8 days

Butch might not have to worry about DOT, his companies log department might notice and want to discuss his misuse of PC time.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Rick S.'s Comment
member avatar

Legally - ANY USE of PC, for anything not actually going food shopping/meals/hotel/etc. - like AS A PERSONAL CONVEYANCE - is illegal.

Do people use Line-5 illegally? Sure - all the time.

Most folks go "off duty" when they get through a gate. Some can get their rig to move (less than 5mph or less than 1 mile) without tripping the ELD into line 3, and can get to the door and drop the box (or wait to be unloaded).

It's all good, until you get CAUGHT - and then it's NOT GOOD. And depending on how many days in the prior 7 you pulled this - you could be placed OOS for quite awhile (at least 10, and if you have no recap coming back after calculating your clock with the VIOLATION HOURS INCLUDED) you may end up doing an entire reset. You have better odds of the SAFETY DEPARTMENT noticing it(as they watch for "creative logging") and they may turn off your Line 5 privileges, or ding you for log violations.

Legally - you can't go Off Duty until you bumped the dock (03:40 hours).

If you do it "no grey area", go OD at 03:40 - leave at 08:40 (5 hours off duty), you can do a split sleeper (if your company allows) - drive Line 4 to the truck stop, take 7 hours to complete the split.

Much depends on WHERE YOU HAVE TO GET TO AFTER THE BREAK. The first PC move is (technically) illegal, the second one is not (except, since you are not out of hours and using the exception to get to the TS on Line 5 - it's not really 100% legal either).

100% LEGAL - you still have 6:20 to drive (4:40 used if you wait to go OD after you get to the dock). I'd log everything legally - trip plan to stop for my 10 in another 4-5 hours (depending on where my next dispatch takes me, and what my appointment time is).

PC is a PRIVILEGE - a lot of companies don't allow it - because PEOPLE ABUSE IT.

FMCSA Personal Conveyance FAQ

Of particular note in this FAQ:

May a driver use personal conveyance when they run out of available (driving/on-duty) hours?

No, except for the one exception described in the guidance where a driver who runs out of hours while at a shipper’s or receiver’s facility may drive from that facility to a nearby, safe location to park, provided that the driver allows adequate time to obtain rest in accordance with daily minimum off-duty periods under the Hours of Service rules before beginning to drive. Personal conveyance is those times where a driver is operating solely for a non-business purpose and cannot be used to extend the duty day.

But in the case you note - you are not "out of hours", and don't need to use PC to get to a safe rest area.

Sadly - clocks get screwed up for wait times - nature of the beast.

The best option is always to run 100% legal - not because you can't get away with cheating once in awhile - but the penalty for getting caught isn't worth the risk.

Rick

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

Sid V.'s Comment
member avatar

I would not have used pc time at the receiver. It's not worth trying to save 10-15 min. After your delivery, you can pc to a safe haven.

Because pc time is recorded as off duty, in this specific case it is better just to complete the 10.

Big Scott (CFI's biggest 's Comment
member avatar

Like others have said the two uses of PC were logs violations. When we are at a customer or terminal we can use Yard Move. This is on duty time not drive time. We cannot use this to move around a truck stop or other public places like that.

Butch needs to manage his clock better and learn some rules.

Terminal:

A facility where trucking companies operate out of, or their "home base" if you will. A lot of major companies have multiple terminals around the country which usually consist of the main office building, a drop lot for trailers, and sometimes a repair shop and wash facilities.

Rubber Duck's Comment
member avatar

I don’t know about butch but here’s what I’d probably do. At 0340 I’d go OFF DUTY. My clock would show I burnt up 4 hours and 40 minutes. I’d have 9 hours and 20 minutes to run when I got empty at 0830.

I wouldn’t need a ten I’d just run. With the new rules your clock pauses after being off for 2 hours straight.

For example You have 10 hours left on your 14 and you go off. In 6 hours you still got 10 hours to run.

Throw some sleeper into the mix and your running like an outlaw from back in the paper log days.

Let’s say a driver named Butch begins with a fresh clock by driving to a Walmart DC. His appointment time is at 0400. Butch starts at 2300 and arrives at the DC an hour early at 0300. Butch will eventually get through the gate and get to a door and get checked in with his paperwork by 0340. Butch will wait to be unloaded until 0830.

Butch went off duty at 0300 as soon as he entered the gate. Then he used personal conveyance to get to the door so that his clock has not been running since he arrived. Since he has been off duty for 5 1/2 hours, Butch decides to use PC to move to a truck stop about 20 miles away. There he waits an additional four hours to end his 10 hour break and get his time back to continue moving to the next stop.

What is your assessment of Butch’s actions? Could he have handled things in a better way? What options would the split sleeper birth provide in his situation?

Rick S.'s Comment
member avatar

I don’t know about butch but here’s what I’d probably do. At 0340 I’d go OFF DUTY. My clock would show I burnt up 4 hours and 40 minutes. I’d have 9 hours and 20 minutes to run when I got empty at 0830.

I wouldn’t need a ten I’d just run. With the new rules your clock pauses after being off for 2 hours straight.

For example You have 10 hours left on your 14 and you go off. In 6 hours you still got 10 hours to run.

Throw some sleeper into the mix and your running like an outlaw from back in the paper log days.

Actually - only the 14 clock pauses. He still ran 4:40 on his 11 drive clock - so even if he paused his 14 - he still only has 6:20 left on his DRIVE CLOCK. You have to COMPLETE THE SPLIT TO RESET THE DRIVE CLOCK.

This is the reason a lot of companies don't like using the split sleeper rule - even with ELD's it can get confusing. Which is why most folks only use it (under the new rules) to pause the 14 hour clock - and still take a 10 to reset both.

Rick

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