C.R. England Nightmare Experience (True Story, Need Help! Nondrug User Tested Positive!)

Topic 31582 | Page 7

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Travis's Comment
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Aside from satisfying his own curiosity I don't see what else additional testing or even an attorney can do. CR England is a private company. I can't see a court granting an order saying "You have to ignore this drug test result and hire this guy" but I could be wrong. IANAL.

If the drug test result got sent to Hire Right or some other third party maybe he could get a court order forcing that entries removal. Maybe but I have no clue. Assuming he is being truthful I do hope he can clear his name. If it's not the truth then the system is working as designed.

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Drug tests are not infallible. Get a repeat and talk to an attorney. Tests are very accurate. In the 90 percentile however anything from poor technique on the LCMS to a ****ty tech can skew results. On urine with the reagent tests being used there are things that can cause false positives which is why they reflex to LCMS for verification on these chain of custody tests. Coming into trucking now from another career. I know the issues pretty well with testing and there are some problems. Very few which doesn't work in your favor. It certainly is possible that something went wrong. Right now you are just in a ****ed position and going to have to fight.

I read some of the comments. Still am taking the story at face value and not trying to pick holes in it. It is now kind of a "legal" matter. Hopefully the OP will get sound legal and medical advice.

Here is a fact that should blow up most of the bull****. Hair follicle tests aren't used in legal proceedings. Wow, is there a message there?

Good luck sir as you work through this. I've seen "false" positives create problems for folks. As I said before, your position is a tough one. You'll have to fight through this if you really want to drive commercially or do anything safety sensitive. Is what it is. Sorry man. Just keep working with that attorney and get some stuff done to clear your name

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midnight fox's Comment
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Hair follicle tests aren't used in legal proceedings.

Source?

midnight fox's Comment
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https://www.pittsburghfamilylawfirm.com/forced-take-drug-test-family-court/ A Pennsylvania judge can order you, the other parent, or both of you to submit to a urine, blood, nail, or follicle test. Each of these tests is performed differently and can detect alcohol or an illegal substance in your system for a different duration of time. A hair follicle test provides the longest history of drug use.
https://mymodernlaw.com/drug-testing-arizona-family-court/ However, courts may order a party to complete a hair follicle test. The urine sample provides results based on up to three days of drug or alcohol use. The hair follicle test can provide results from up to 90 days.
https://law.justia.com/cases/texas/court-of-criminal-appeals/2019/pd-0711-17-0.html The State presented evidence that the other children in Appellant’s care at the time of C.F.’sdeath also received doses of the drug. The parents of each child testified that their children were inthe care of Appellant, that they submitted hair samples for testing, and that after theyreceived thehair follicle test results, theystopped supporting and contacting Appellant. The State’s medicalexpert provided the actual results of the testing, which showed that each child had diphenhydraminein their hair samples that correlated with the time that theywere at Appellant’s daycare.

BMI:

Body mass index (BMI)

BMI is a formula that uses weight and height to estimate body fat. For most people, BMI provides a reasonable estimate of body fat. The BMI's biggest weakness is that it doesn't consider individual factors such as bone or muscle mass. BMI may:

  • Underestimate body fat for older adults or other people with low muscle mass
  • Overestimate body fat for people who are very muscular and physically fit

It's quite common, especially for men, to fall into the "overweight" category if you happen to be stronger than average. If you're pretty strong but in good shape then pay no attention.

G-Town's Comment
member avatar

So Matthew... would you prefer no-test policies in the trucking industry? Everyone knows the government is slow to adopt new technology, especially at the expense of someone’s sensitive feelings and self entitlement. Your argument is weak.

So annoying when a knot-holer, looking in from the outside mocks policies and procedures designed to reduce the risk of chronic drug users from driving an 80,000lb CMV. Drive a mile in my shoes...etc.

I think it’s safe for me to speak for the majority of the drivers contributing to this forum, including those in recovery:

We DO NOT want anyone in the drivers seat under the influence of anything compromising safe operation of their truck!

Where is the bullis__t in that Matthew?

CMV:

Commercial Motor Vehicle

A CMV is a vehicle that is used as part of a business, is involved in interstate commerce, and may fit any of these descriptions:

  • Weighs 10,001 pounds or more
  • Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more
  • Is designed or used to transport 16 or more passengers (including the driver) not for compensation
  • Is designed or used to transport 9 or more passengers (including the driver) for compensation
  • Is transporting hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placards

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Matthew P.'s Comment
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G Town. Not only did you throw up a strawman, you tried to depersonalize me. Not butthurt though. Just smiling a little about it.

Blame the somewhat inaccurate statement on fatigue and a long week. Currently, the DOT does not use the results of hair follicle tests. Source.........google says so and so does the DOT. Urine is the standard right now and probably will remain so. Accurate enough to find out if someone has recently used.

There still are "some" problems with hair follicle testing which cause some entities to steer away from it. Not getting into a "science" argument here. Just stuff that I already know. I do know from some of my parolee friends that nails, hair follicles and other things can be used to go back and find out if they've been using. Not sure what the legal precedent is for that so ifox or whatever your handle is.....you were right to call that out.

So, this guy.....the OP. Obviously disappointed. Has to figure out what to do now. Like I said before I am taking his story at face value. If he is lying.....well that is on him. I do know that there is a possibility he is truthful and I sure hope he moves to clear this up and get on with his life if that is the case. Not even going to the other side of the coin. Ya'll have done enough of that. Page after page actually.

Had to ask myself why I even responded to this. I've seen inaccurate results twist someone up before. Worked to help straighten that out together with the person. Probably why this story hooked me. I know it is possible as I have seen it!

As for the rest of your comments G Town. I am not biting on the troll bait.

Looking very much forward to a warmer week. Froze my butt off in MN. Went through snow and ice in OK this week. Saw a trailer get dropped that caused a big delay and put me home really late Friday night. Man what a week. All I wanted to do was sleep on Saturday. G Town if you wanted to make a really helpful comment could you answer this please. Do you guys get any less tired toward the end of the week? I have been wiped on my reset. I'm a little older and flatbedding. It is pretty hard work!

Happy Sunday everyone.

SAP:

Substance Abuse Professional

The Substance Abuse Professional (SAP) is a person who evaluates employees who have violated a DOT drug and alcohol program regulation and makes recommendations concerning education, treatment, follow-up testing, and aftercare.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

G-Town's Comment
member avatar

Matthew you made a comment that was not completely true (calling hair follicle testing BS) I cannot let something like that go unchecked. Depersonalize got it? It was meant as such. There is nothing personal about the tests we are debating. I honestly thought you were not a driver. Not troll bait. If you have a better solution, bring it.

I try not to post at the end of my week...for the very reason you stated.

G-Town's Comment
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Matthew please repost your last reply. I apologize it was accidentally deleted while reviewing multiple new member posts in moderation.

Pacific Pearl's Comment
member avatar

You tested positive for meth in a pre-employment drug screen. Whether you did or did not do meth doesn't really matter, you tested positive. Your only recourse is to get retested and appeal. If the first test was defective or in error for some other reason you will have the opportunity to appeal and drive on. Granted, it's one heck of a coincidence that you happened to test positive for the one drug someone in your home was using.

If your second test confirms the first test you have no grounds for appeal. Your only option is to complete an SAP course. Again, does not matter if you used meth or not if the first test is proven correct that's your only option if you want to drive. There is no option to hire a lawyer (not sure who you're planning on suing since you have no case). You can call your priest, your congressman or anyone else you want - the only way you can drive a CMV after a valid positive drug screen is to complete the SAP process.

There was a time not too long ago that would have been the end of your driving career. Even if you successfully completed an SAP program your odds of getting hired for a driving job were zilch. A handful of people were re-hired by their previous employer if they had been driving there for many years but most folks were done driving. Today there are a handful of companies that will hire you after you finish an SAP program. Keep us posted and if your appeal is unsuccessful I can steer you towards a few select companies you will still be able to drive for.

SAP:

Substance Abuse Professional

The Substance Abuse Professional (SAP) is a person who evaluates employees who have violated a DOT drug and alcohol program regulation and makes recommendations concerning education, treatment, follow-up testing, and aftercare.

CMV:

Commercial Motor Vehicle

A CMV is a vehicle that is used as part of a business, is involved in interstate commerce, and may fit any of these descriptions:

  • Weighs 10,001 pounds or more
  • Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more
  • Is designed or used to transport 16 or more passengers (including the driver) not for compensation
  • Is designed or used to transport 9 or more passengers (including the driver) for compensation
  • Is transporting hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placards
Kal-el T.'s Comment
member avatar

I am on standby at the moment while I await the results of the new test. Not much that I can do until then. Right now I am on my own because there are no institutions out there that helps people in my position. So it is all on me and me alone to prove my innocence. If it turns out that I cannot prove my innocence, well, I will just have to stick with companies who do urine tests only until I get passed the last known possible date that I could have been poisoned/drugged (Isn't it the same thing?) which was when I took the EPO out on her and got her out of my home, which was Sept. 21st. Thankfully there are companies out there who do not do hair follicle tests, although I am in full support of screening out anyone who could be a danger to the trucking industry, I do wish there were other methods you could use to prove your innocence if you test positive. As of right now, retaking the same test seems to be the only one available, but that still doesn't help anyone who might have been drugged or exposed somehow without their knowledge. I don't think there is a way to prove that outside of a confession from the guilty party.

So right now, all I can do is wait and see what the results come back as and accept my fate either way. I have driven myself to tears over this, literally. So right now I am just clearing my mind and patiently waiting for the results.

Bird-One's Comment
member avatar

Kal-el I could be wrong but I’m fairly certain this failed drug test will be on your alcohol and drug clearinghouse profile. I’m pretty sure you have to had registered for that before you took your drug test for CR England. Like it or not that program was designed to prevent people from doing the very thing you are trying to do. It will not matter if you try to apply for a company that does urine test only. They will check your clearinghouse and see you failed a hair follicle.

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