Prime PSD Training, From A Trainer's Perspective.

Topic 25397 | Page 6

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Jamie's Comment
member avatar

Rick, I believe that with Schneider the trainer got credit for all the miles. I got paid a daily amount I think was $80 per day, but I know it was a lump sum not per mile. That works pretty good because in our case, I was eager to drive as many miles as I could and the trainer was willing to let me.

Not sure how other companies structure it with trainers.

It's $60 per day per student, plus all miles driven by the truck. Plus you get bonuses for things such as each month a student goes without an accident and for each month they stay with Schneider for I think 5 months.

Old School's Comment
member avatar

Patrick, have you considered what the "L" stands for in CLP?

Usually a PSD student does a few things Bob-tail first, then maybe some backroads with an MT trailer. If they show total incompetence there's no way the trainer is going to allow them to pull freight. Primates can correct me, but I'm sure they have a way of evaluating the students before hooking them up with a loaded trailer.

PSD:

Prime Student Driver

Prime Inc has a CDL training program and the first phase is referred to as PSD. You'll get your permit and then 10,000 miles of on the road instruction.

The following is from Prime's website:

Prime’s PSD begins with you obtaining your CDL permit. Then you’ll go on the road with a certified CDL instructor for no less than 75 hours of one-on-one behind the wheel training. After training, you’ll return to Prime’s corporate headquarters in Springfield, Missouri, for final CDL state testing and your CDL license.

Obtain CDL Permit / 4 Days

  • Enter program, study and test for Missouri CDL permit.
  • Start driving/training at Prime Training Center in Springfield, Missouri.
  • Work toward 40,000 training dispatched miles (minimum) with food allowance while without CDL (Food allowance is paid back with future earnings).

On-the-Road Instruction / 10,000 Miles

  • Train with experienced certified CDL instructor for 3-4 weeks in a real world environment.
  • Get 75 hours of behind-the-wheel time with one-on-one student/instructor ratio.
  • Earn 10,000 miles toward total 40,000 miles needed.

CLP:

Commercial Learner's Permit

Before getting their CDL, commercial drivers will receive their commercial learner's permit (CLP) upon passing the written portion of the CDL exam. They will not have to retake the written exam to get their CDL.

LDRSHIP's Comment
member avatar

I have considered what L stands for. THAT is why I feel they have ZERO place hauling a loaded trailer. They haven’t even learned enough to pass the skills exam with an MT trailer. Let alone driving a mobile 80k lbs sledgehammer. My opinion, I know, is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. I know opinions are like buttholes, everybody has one and they all stink.

Crawl, Walk, Run. It works!

Turtle's Comment
member avatar

Do you really think it makes a difference whether they have a CLP or a CDL? A first time driver is a first time driver, period. It makes absolutely no difference what their license says, in my opinion. Did your CDL magically make you know how to handle an 80k rig? Of course not, it took practice. The only way to practice is to do it. Whether they've had their CLP for a week, or spent the last 2 months in a Community College course, at some point you simply have to let them behind the wheel.

Yes, we evaluate a driver long before they get behind the wheel of a loaded rig. First, there is the MV history. Then there is a lot of work done in the SIM lab. Then the trainer will evaluate the student while bobtail and pulling an empty trailer, as I did. The student must demonstrate an ability to operate safely. Only then will they be allowed to pull some weight if the trainer judges them ready to try.

Those families you mentioned, most are killed by experienced drivers. Statistically, students are far safer drivers.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

CLP:

Commercial Learner's Permit

Before getting their CDL, commercial drivers will receive their commercial learner's permit (CLP) upon passing the written portion of the CDL exam. They will not have to retake the written exam to get their CDL.

Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar
My opinion, I know, is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

No, your opinion is not meaningless. It carries weight.

In the end, the only way a new driver is going to learn to handle a rig is on the road. Whether or not it's loaded is of little consequence, really. The key is that the truck is dispatched as a solo truck and the trainer is there watching every move, determining whether or not the conditions are safe for the student to handle the truck. So for sure in the beginning they're spending most of their time on cruise control on the Interstate and then working their way up to more complex situations.

Most truck driving schools put some weight in some of their trailers to make the truck brake a little more smoothly and to give the students a feel for a loaded trailer. So it's not unusual for students to handle loaded trailers.

I think if the trainer is doing their job properly and allows the student to slowly get the feel for the truck under the right circumstances first then the system is fine. The nice thing is that the trainer is in the truck with the student, so a mistake in judgment by one affects the other. That's a lot safer than a system where someone behind a desk decides when a student should be cut loose to handle a rig.

Interstate:

Commercial trade, business, movement of goods or money, or transportation from one state to another, regulated by the Federal Department Of Transportation (DOT).

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

LDRSHIP's Comment
member avatar

I’m sorry if I offended you turtle, and yes, I agree you have to learn at some point by doing. But, time and place. I firmly believe the time and place is after someone has accomplished attaining a CDL. Prove you have some understanding, First. As far as the SIM lab. It is an expensive video game. Not the same as real life. I have played lots of video games with steering wheels, shifters, control pedals and the like. If you mess up, real people don’t die.

A first time driver is a first time driver. They shouldn’t be a first time driver with a load, that’s all.

There is a difference between I have been practicing a day and I have been practicing for WEEKS. Honestly, How many WEEKS do they (Prime PSD students) have practicing driving a real, MT, tractor trailer before pulling a loaded one. My guess, is it isn’t anything more than a couple DAYS. There is the BIG difference. A couple days vs a couple weeks.

This is definitely an agree to disagree situation. You have zero issue with it and I do have an issue with it. I have disagreed with Primes use of CLP holders to move freight for a long time. Just generally bit my tongue. I figure this is a good a time as any. To show those differences and why I disagree. It will give the following readers both sides of the coin to form their own opinions.

Just to throw it out there, I don’t agree with team training either, but it is what it is.

You are right in the inexperienced drivers are more cautious that experienced drivers as a whole, but it didn’t stop one of the students at the school I got my CDL at from crushing a car. I don’t want the imagine how much worse the damage would of been if she was driving a fully loaded semi.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

PSD:

Prime Student Driver

Prime Inc has a CDL training program and the first phase is referred to as PSD. You'll get your permit and then 10,000 miles of on the road instruction.

The following is from Prime's website:

Prime’s PSD begins with you obtaining your CDL permit. Then you’ll go on the road with a certified CDL instructor for no less than 75 hours of one-on-one behind the wheel training. After training, you’ll return to Prime’s corporate headquarters in Springfield, Missouri, for final CDL state testing and your CDL license.

Obtain CDL Permit / 4 Days

  • Enter program, study and test for Missouri CDL permit.
  • Start driving/training at Prime Training Center in Springfield, Missouri.
  • Work toward 40,000 training dispatched miles (minimum) with food allowance while without CDL (Food allowance is paid back with future earnings).

On-the-Road Instruction / 10,000 Miles

  • Train with experienced certified CDL instructor for 3-4 weeks in a real world environment.
  • Get 75 hours of behind-the-wheel time with one-on-one student/instructor ratio.
  • Earn 10,000 miles toward total 40,000 miles needed.

CLP:

Commercial Learner's Permit

Before getting their CDL, commercial drivers will receive their commercial learner's permit (CLP) upon passing the written portion of the CDL exam. They will not have to retake the written exam to get their CDL.

Turtle's Comment
member avatar

Not offended in the least Patrick. Simply point/counterpoint. Your opinion is valued as much as anyone else's. Don't apologize for that.

Of course a SIM is not the same as the real thing. That's obvious. But it introduces a student to driving in a controlled environment. Studies have shown it to be effective in learning basic controls in a safe manner.

A first time driver with a load is by definition a first time driver with a load. No amount of empty practice will change that.

How many drivers at any company practice for weeks empty before loaded? Weeks at a driving school or company school pulling an empty for an hour a day between other students doesn't count.

I never said I had zero issue with it. Is it ideal? Nope. But I accept it as a reality that, in the big picture, is generally safe if monitored by an experienced driver.

A student at your school crushing a car is an exception, and doesn't change proven statistical facts. It's the experienced drivers who get a little too full of themselves that kill people.

Let's face it, anyone can attend the best driving school, get their CDL , even spend a month pulling empty, then kill someone on their first load.

Nothing will replace true practice, and the only way to practice is to hook up and go. What better time than when a trainer is sitting next to you?

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
Truckin Along With Kearse's Comment
member avatar

Take into consideration how much time someone actually drove in those weeks though. When you share a truck with 3 other people, how much road time do you get? and local roads are more dangerous than interstates. the traffic volumes and turning spaces are all totally different. Everything comes at you from all angles, so you are even more hyper in smaller areas.

My local CDL school is at one of the busiest truck stops in NJ, with a Blue Beacon, I 295, NJ TRNPk and US 130 all intersecting. Expecting to do that is nuts from day one.

I did 4 hours of backing practice entirely one on one with the trainer my first day. I drove Bobtail first at night with very low traffic. Then I pulled the empty trailer and after the second day with a total of of 16 hours of street driving and 6 hours of backing, we headed out.

Many drivers I talked to who went to a traditional school setting only claim to have driven a few hours before taking the exam, despite having spent weeks at school. Most of the time was spent going over pretrip and sharing trucks for backing. Avatar posted how he was so nervous and distracted by the other students in the cab. That in itself causes dangerous scenarios.

Also take into consideration that with the autos now being a testing choice, students are passing the CDL much faster. Some are not going OTR at Prime now, they are basically getting long hours of backing and road experience for up to a week (if you get your permit on day 2 of orientation, 14 days later would basically be 1 week of drive time.) The pass rates are through the roof compared to testing in the manuals. Students can relax more which is sometimes their biggest downfall.

Yet, I know people who pass the test that I do not think are safe. Any license does not make you a driver. Loaded or not, back road or not, a truck will demolish a car. I think a students attitude plays a huge part. If they take it seriously, they can accomplish a lot. If they dont respect the road, issues can arise. You can drive for 20 years but lose respect for the road and troue.

One of the reasons I wanted Prime was rhe one on one instruction. Every program has its good an bad. Like i said earlier, I was horrified to find out some of these companies only do 3 weeks of OTR training before they go solo.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

OTR:

Over The Road

OTR driving normally means you'll be hauling freight to various customers throughout your company's hauling region. It often entails being gone from home for two to three weeks at a time.

Interstate:

Commercial trade, business, movement of goods or money, or transportation from one state to another, regulated by the Federal Department Of Transportation (DOT).

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Bruce K.'s Comment
member avatar

I know this is not the main point of the discussion, but at the school I attended and at Schneider ‘s training Academy, all the training trailers had pallets of concrete blocks inside. How much weight, I don’t know but I know I pulled a partially loaded trailer at all times.

Spaceman Spiff's Comment
member avatar

Hung in Pittston PA about a week ago for the earlier questions.

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